NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

[Moshe Matitya]

I didn't notice anyone here blaming "the world", only NetBeans. Also, I am not aware of *any* framework that is supported by "the Language" (assuming that you are referring to the Java language).

But in any case, your advice is understood, together with the rebukes of the others here who are proclaiming that "NetBeans is only free cookies, suckers."

So I would add to your advice, that before starting any new projects, one would be wise to consider the implications of continuing to use a development tool that unceremoniously pulled out the rug from under countless hapless developers, and which is regarded by its *proponents* as nothing more than "free cookies in a grocery store"…

Moshe



From: Marc Farrow [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:08 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


This topic is a dead horse. The framework is not supported by the Language. NB should not support it. If you love something so much start supporting it yourself and man up and stop blaming the world because it is an inconvenience to you.
On Apr 19, 2012 1:58 AM, "Ramon Casha" <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
And this is precisely why the Netbeans developers are so unreliable and the use of their products a major liability.


Ramon Casha


On 19 April 2012 00:04, Fabrizio Giudici <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 22:35:49 +0200, Gregg Wonderly <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
On 4/18/2012 11:53 AM, Fabrizio Giudici wrote:
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:03:34 +0200, Xavier Callejas
<address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:

+1

Exactly. Doesn't "NO MORE DEVELOPED" scream much louder than "deprecated"?

I seems to me, that what bothers most people with this issue, is that no one is making comments that really are meaningful in regard to the true nature of continued support of SAF. Even justification comments like the above that say "NO MORE DEVELOPED", are hollow in the fact that java.lang.Object, java.awt.event.Event, java.lang.Integer and many other classes are "NO MORE DEVELOPED" in that they are mature technologies that do something that is useful, and so people use them, and changing them is not necessary because they work to accomplish a realistic goal.


Sorry Gregg, for this time I won't read more and just comment on this preamble because I'm a bit tired of this thread. This is playing with words. DEVELOPED means MAINTAINED. If a bug is ever found in Object or Integer (which is of course unlikely since they are so simple, thus I should even add that the comparison doesn't make sense), it will be fixed. If a bug is found in SAF, nobody will.

At the end of this long, long thread, only a few things remain: that SAF is no more maintained, that people that still want to use it can use the previous version of the NetBeans IDE (well, it's no more maintained, but it's the same of SAF, right? So if SAF "still works" even though unmaintained, the same holds for an older version of the IDE), and that people prefer to spend time in writing emails asking for others to fix the problem rather than fixing the problem themselves. At this point of the thread, I'm pretty sure that the cumulative amount of time that we spent on it could have been enough for pulling the sources of the dismissed SAF plugin and making it work with NetBeans 7.1.

I must say that this is my last contribution to this thread and now I'm going to mark it as "ignored". Sorry guys, I'm really struggling to keep up with all the tons of emails and feeds I read and moreover my time will be better spent in answering some more practical question in the NetBeans community.



--
Fabrizio Giudici - Java Architect, Project Manager
Tidalwave s.a.s. - "We make Java work. Everywhere."
address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])
http://tidalwave.it - http://fabriziogiudici.it

[Moshe Matitya]

Indeed. In fact, I know of several companies that have made exactly that decision in the wake of this recent fiasco.

Moshe


-----Original Message-----
From: Bayless Kirtley [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:51 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

+1

If you really feel that strongly about it then the reasonable solution is to
leave Netbeans.


-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Holmer
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 8:01 AM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

On Thu, 2012-04-19 at 07:58 +0200, Ramon Casha wrote:

[Moshe Matitya]

Not existing ones. They can't even be opened in the IDE anymore.

Moshe


-----Original Message-----
From: Wade Chandler [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:58 PM
To: address-removed
Cc: Gregg Wonderly; address-removed; Ramon Casha; address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


...
That said, what exactly is lost in this? Frames, dialogs, panels etc are
all still able to be developed in the IDE.

[Mack06]

So you believe NB developers are responsible for the apps people make with Netbeans? That is a good one.

Mark

From: Moshe Matitya <address-removed>
To: "address-removed" <address-removed>
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 7:16:15 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


I didn't state that they despise other developers.

YOU suggested that the NB developers regard the countless apps created by their wizard as nothing more than free cookie samples in a grocery store.

I am saying that IF your bizarre suggestion were actually correct, then that would constitute contempt for those users.

But please, feel free to twist my words into something else entirely, if you'd like.

Moshe



From: Mark Wilmoth [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:52 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contempt

NetBeans developers willfully despise other developers that use NetBeans?

This is a new all time low Moshe, congratulations!

Mark

From: Moshe Matitya <address-removed>
To: " address-removed " < address-removed >
Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 6:59:59 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued
In previous versions of NB (6.9 and earlier), when the user would use the Create Project wizard to create a project of the type innocently named "Desktop Application" (no mention whatsoever of SAF, mind you) -- it would create an SAF app.

If the NB developers actually regard the countless apps created by their wizard the way you describe – as nothing more than free cookie samples in a grocery store – then that is the best reason I have ever heard to run from NB like the plague, and switch to a platform like Eclipse, whose developers do not regard their users with the contempt that you so colorfully describe.

Moshe



From: Mark Wilmoth [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:24 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


I go to the grocery store and they give out free samples of cookies every day. I love going there and getting my free cookie. I never buy anything, I just want a free cookie. I am quite addicted to my free cookie! One day I go in and they are not giving out free cookies any longer. As a matter of fact they have discontinued the program to give free cookie samples!

How could they do such a thing! They encouraged me to like the cookies and then pulled the rug out from under me!

They are untrustworthy and I will never go to that store again!

Mark

From: Ramon Casha <address-removed>
To: address-removed
Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 8:56:13 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

It has nothing to do with "removing a framework". It has everything to do with FIRST encouraging developers to use a framework, then removing code that was working perfectly in such a way that all the forms developed - many hundreds of forms - can't even be OPENED using the designer. Those claims of trustworthiness are neither wild nor ridiculous.

Ramon Casha
On 11 April 2012 15:34, Mack06 <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
It might be disappointing that they removed a framework that was dead and never was standardized in the first place... but making wild, ridiculous claims of trustworthiness to villainize NetBeans people is uncalled for!

[Glenn Holmer]

On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 06:20 -0700, Mark Wilmoth wrote:

[Mack06]

Ah ok...

Mark


From: Glenn Holmer <address-removed>
To: address-removed
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 8:38:19 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 06:20 -0700, Mark Wilmoth wrote:

[Moshe Matitya]

Why, of course not. NB developers have absolutely nothing whatsoever at all to do with apps created by their own app wizards. Not even apps that remain completely unmodified from the moment that the wizard creates it.



From: Mark Wilmoth [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:21 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


So you believe NB developers are responsible for the apps people make with Netbeans? That is a good one.

Mark

From: Moshe Matitya <address-removed>
To: "address-removed" <address-removed>
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 7:16:15 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued
I didn't state that they despise other developers.

YOU suggested that the NB developers regard the countless apps created by their wizard as nothing more than free cookie samples in a grocery store.

I am saying that IF your bizarre suggestion were actually correct, then that would constitute contempt for those users.

But please, feel free to twist my words into something else entirely, if you'd like.

Moshe



From: Mark Wilmoth [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 4:52 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contempt

NetBeans developers willfully despise other developers that use NetBeans?

This is a new all time low Moshe, congratulations!

Mark

From: Moshe Matitya <address-removed>
To: " address-removed " < address-removed >
Sent: Wed, April 18, 2012 6:59:59 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued
In previous versions of NB (6.9 and earlier), when the user would use the Create Project wizard to create a project of the type innocently named "Desktop Application" (no mention whatsoever of SAF, mind you) -- it would create an SAF app.

If the NB developers actually regard the countless apps created by their wizard the way you describe – as nothing more than free cookie samples in a grocery store – then that is the best reason I have ever heard to run from NB like the plague, and switch to a platform like Eclipse, whose developers do not regard their users with the contempt that you so colorfully describe.

Moshe



From: Mark Wilmoth [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:24 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued


I go to the grocery store and they give out free samples of cookies every day. I love going there and getting my free cookie. I never buy anything, I just want a free cookie. I am quite addicted to my free cookie! One day I go in and they are not giving out free cookies any longer. As a matter of fact they have discontinued the program to give free cookie samples!

How could they do such a thing! They encouraged me to like the cookies and then pulled the rug out from under me!

They are untrustworthy and I will never go to that store again!

Mark

From: Ramon Casha <address-removed>
To: address-removed
Sent: Wed, April 11, 2012 8:56:13 AM
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

It has nothing to do with "removing a framework". It has everything to do with FIRST encouraging developers to use a framework, then removing code that was working perfectly in such a way that all the forms developed - many hundreds of forms - can't even be OPENED using the designer. Those claims of trustworthiness are neither wild nor ridiculous.

Ramon Casha
On 11 April 2012 15:34, Mack06 <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
It might be disappointing that they removed a framework that was dead and never was standardized in the first place... but making wild, ridiculous claims of trustworthiness to villainize NetBeans people is uncalled for!

[Moshe Matitya]

*munch*

*burp*


-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Holmer [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:38 PM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] Re: NetBeans 7.1 Swing Application Support discontinued

On Wed, 2012-05-02 at 06:20 -0700, Mark Wilmoth wrote:

[Jens Technau]

Dear Forum,
the whole software we're building is built with netbeans <7.1. As many others already mentioned, we can now not only not build new projects without using netbeans platform, even worse, we can not open existing sources in the gui builder anymore.

Using netbeans platform for that purpose is absolutely pointless, as the applications are very specific aircraft-use-apps for dedicated devices that do not need any nb-platform-features at all. Just plain jframe and jpanel based apps, the whole application and windowing logic is handmade. No menus, no other "standard" items an nb-platfform module would deliver is used. Just a collection of nb-gui-builder-created frames and panels, manually connected. The usage of swing application framework did not even happen intentionally, it happend just by creating gui's with netbeans < 7.1, as it seems.

The point is not that I do not understand the problem with an deprecated API. The point is that if the mayor effort of porting ALL existing sources to NB platform, just to be able to open them in the designer, has to be undertaken, who can tell how long it takes until NB platform gets deprecated itself and the process starts all over again?

As with some other companies and developers, this issue leads not only to questioning the NB IDE, it leads to questioning the usage of java at all, because after all, who needs several competing application frameworks? The diverstiy of the java universe is its greatest advantage, but all the same its greatest problem, as companies need to spend increasingly more time in just watching all those frameworks and platforms come and go and decide which one to use. After all, a visual component built with netbeans 7.0.1 gui builder should be graphically editable in netbeans 7.1 as well, regardless of any deprecated frameworks.

Anyway, it should be impossible, open source or not, that projects created over many years using netbeans standard built-in tools just stop being graphically editable from one day to the other. At least the usage of swing app framework should still be possible, after answering several warning messages, if found neccessary.

The friendly hint, that anybody complaining over this issue should start working on the solution instead, is understandable, but not realistic. Who is qualified and has the time/gets the time to do so? I am very grateful for the people and companies spending time and therefore money maintaining NB up and running. I only suggest that decisions like this one should be taken with the goal of a smooth upgrading to the new netbeans version without being faced with months of extra work because of politically motivated decisions.

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On 05/09/2012 03:07 PM, Jens Technau wrote:

[Fabrizio Giudici]

On Wed, 09 May 2012 15:07:46 +0200, Jens Technau
<address-removed> wrote:

[Delf Egge]

Hello Geertjan,

Would you be so kind to shed some light into what will be the future of NetBeans - and Java - on Mac OS X and subsequent?

Thanks a lot.

Delf Egge, HafenCity Universitaet Hamburg

[Geertjan Wielenga]

On 05/10/2012 12:46 PM, Delf Egge wrote:

[Fabrizio Giudici]

On Thu, 10 May 2012 12:59:29 +0200, Geertjan Wielenga
<address-removed> wrote:

[Gregg Wonderly]

There is also the address-removed mailing list, specifically
about the work of Oracle and Apple to bring the MacOS-X support into the main
Oracle distribution. Look at the openjdk project on java.net for more
information on support on MacOS-X.

Gregg Wonderly

On 5/10/2012 5:59 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: