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NetBeans IDE better at Java Platform mgmt than competion?

 
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Peter Hansson
Posted via mailing list.





PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: NetBeans IDE better at Java Platform mgmt than competion? Reply with quote

Hi all,


NetBeans IDE should be the #1 when it comes to Java development. Users of IDE's should feel that NetBeans is closer to the Oracle JDK than any other IDE.



Here's a suggestion.


As a Java developer I keep my development environment fairly up-to-date with the latest JDK packages from Oracle's site. I also quite often dive into the JDK source and I occasionally test new JDKs and I'm active in various JDK related settings (SO, JDK mailing lists, etc). The NetBeans IDE doesn't do anything extra to cater for the likes of me compared to the competion, at least not when it comes to Java Platform management.



Imagine a NetBeans IDE plugin that would:




* Lets you get and install latest JDK package from Oracle (of course only after having accepted license first)


* Checking for latest JDK and potentially giving warning to IDE user that a newer JDK is available.


* When installing, then optionally installing the docs package too. (this is a hassle to do manually)


* When installing, then optionally installing the full source too. Now, this is REALLY a hassle to do currently as the only way to obtain the JDK source is via Mercurial (OpenJDK). The source that is included with the Oracle JDK is for kids, it only includes the JSR classes, not the interesting stuff, i.e. the actual implementation. I appreciate the difference between OpenJDK and Oracle JDK but I do not understand why this has to be so difficult.


* Being able to change - from within the plugin - the IDE's own JDK. This will require that the plugin has write access to the IDE's conf file, so this one may not be easy to solve.




All of this should be possible from within the IDE.  I understand that this cannot be done without some cooperation from the rest of Oracle, e.g. the Oracle Java team would have to expose an URL for checking for latest version, and so on.


NB: the word "install" in the above should often be read as "unpack". Perhaps the default may even be to install new Java Platforms into a private location only used by NetBeans?. Java devs are rarely interested in something messing with their Windows Registry and what not.


I think this could be a killer feature of the NB IDE. At least it will signal that the NB IDE has more of an affinity with Oracle JDK than any other IDE.


(end of random thoughts)


/Peter
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emi



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 238

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: NetBeans IDE better at Java Platform mgmt than competion? Reply with quote

I guess you have different needs because I wound't want to use
NetBeans for those tasks.

Checking the JDK latest version is a matter of the package manager and such.

I believe NetBeans already loads Javadocs from the internet if
available. Getting them locally isn't something I would want NetBeans
to do custom.

Maybe OpenJDK should publish the sources/javadocs in a Maven
repository and NetBeans Maven support would almost-natively support
that.


--emi


On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Peter Hansson
<address-removed> wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,

NetBeans IDE should be the #1 when it comes to Java development. Users of
IDE's should feel that NetBeans is closer to the Oracle JDK than any other
IDE.


Here's a suggestion.

As a Java developer I keep my development environment fairly up-to-date with
the latest JDK packages from Oracle's site. I also quite often dive into the
JDK source and I occasionally test new JDKs and I'm active in various JDK
related settings (SO, JDK mailing lists, etc). The NetBeans IDE doesn't do
anything extra to cater for the likes of me compared to the competion, at
least not when it comes to Java Platform management.


Imagine a NetBeans IDE plugin that would:


* Lets you get and install latest JDK package from Oracle (of course only
after having accepted license first)

* Checking for latest JDK and potentially giving warning to IDE user that a
newer JDK is available.

* When installing, then optionally installing the docs package too. (this is
a hassle to do manually)

* When installing, then optionally installing the full source too. Now, this
is REALLY a hassle to do currently as the only way to obtain the JDK source
is via Mercurial (OpenJDK). The source that is included with the Oracle JDK
is for kids, it only includes the JSR classes, not the interesting stuff,
i.e. the actual implementation. I appreciate the difference between OpenJDK
and Oracle JDK but I do not understand why this has to be so difficult.

* Being able to change - from within the plugin - the IDE's own JDK. This
will require that the plugin has write access to the IDE's conf file, so
this one may not be easy to solve.


All of this should be possible from within the IDE. I understand that this
cannot be done without some cooperation from the rest of Oracle, e.g. the
Oracle Java team would have to expose an URL for checking for latest
version, and so on.

NB: the word "install" in the above should often be read as "unpack".
Perhaps the default may even be to install new Java Platforms into a private
location only used by NetBeans?. Java devs are rarely interested in
something messing with their Windows Registry and what not.

I think this could be a killer feature of the NB IDE. At least it will
signal that the NB IDE has more of an affinity with Oracle JDK than any
other IDE.

(end of random thoughts)

/Peter
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Peter Hansson
Posted via mailing list.





PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: NetBeans IDE better at Java Platform mgmt than competion? Reply with quote

Package managers and installers are for putting stuff into system-wide locations, IMHO.
I wouldn't want my host's package manager to control the Java Platforms that are
available to my IDE. The Java Platform that I want to use for my IDE isn't the one
I necessarily want to use on the host as such.



Javadocs:  I suggest it to be optional whether user wants to download Javadocs bundle too.

Personally I like to have them locally as it is slightly faster than looking them up

from http://docs.oracle.com and I can access them even while offline. Right now the process

to get the JDK *with* the locally installed Javadoc in an unnecessary two-step procedure.


Sources:  Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if Oracle would publish the Java source bundles

somewhere for easy download. Alas, they don't. For the moment the only procedure

that I know of is to go http://hg.openjdk.java.net/jdk8u/jdk8u/jdk/ and download sources
for the tag relating to the JDK you are using. Finding out what is the appropriate



tag is also not obvious, but can be figured out by looking at the URL text when you

download your JDK from java.sun.com. For example for JDK 8u121 you would want

build 13. After you download you need to re-organize the content of the downloaded

ZIP file to be in a structure that the IDE will understand and then finally you'll need

to attach it to the appropriate Java Platform entry in the IDE. Not for the faint of heart.


/Peter






On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Emilian Bold <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
Quote:
I guess you have different needs because I wound't want to use
NetBeans for those tasks.

Checking the JDK latest version is a matter of the package manager and such.

I believe NetBeans already loads Javadocs from the internet if
available. Getting them locally isn't something I would want NetBeans
to do custom.

Maybe OpenJDK should publish the sources/javadocs in a Maven
repository and NetBeans Maven support would almost-natively support
that.


--emi


On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Peter Hansson
<address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote:
Quote:
Hi all,

NetBeans IDE should be the #1 when it comes to Java development. Users of
IDE's should feel that NetBeans is closer to the Oracle JDK than any other
IDE.


Here's a suggestion.

As a Java developer I keep my development environment fairly up-to-date with
the latest JDK packages from Oracle's site. I also quite often dive into the
JDK source and I occasionally test new JDKs and I'm active in various JDK
related settings (SO, JDK mailing lists, etc). The NetBeans IDE doesn't do
anything extra to cater for the likes of me compared to the competion, at
least not when it comes to Java Platform management.


Imagine a NetBeans IDE plugin that would:


* Lets you get and install latest JDK package from Oracle (of course only
after having accepted license first)

* Checking for latest JDK and potentially giving warning to IDE user that a
newer JDK is available.

* When installing, then optionally installing the docs package too. (this is
a hassle to do manually)

* When installing, then optionally installing the full source too. Now, this
is REALLY a hassle to do currently as the only way to obtain the JDK source
is via Mercurial (OpenJDK). The source that is included with the Oracle JDK
is for kids, it only includes the JSR classes, not the interesting stuff,
i.e. the actual implementation. I appreciate the difference between OpenJDK
and Oracle JDK but I do not understand why this has to be so difficult.

* Being able to change - from within the plugin - the IDE's own JDK. This
will require that the plugin has write access to the IDE's conf file, so
this one may not be easy to solve.


All of this should be possible from within the IDE.  I understand that this
cannot be done without some cooperation from the rest of Oracle, e.g. the
Oracle Java team would have to expose an URL for checking for latest
version, and so on.

NB: the word "install" in the above should often be read as "unpack".
Perhaps the default may even be to install new Java Platforms into a private
location only used by NetBeans?. Java devs are rarely interested in
something messing with their Windows Registry and what not.

I think this could be a killer feature of the NB IDE. At least it will
signal that the NB IDE has more of an affinity with Oracle JDK than any
other IDE.

(end of random thoughts)

/Peter


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