6.8M2 horrors

[swv]

After opening a project in 6.8M2, it's no longer a valid project in 6.7. So this means I opened a valid project, originally create in 6.7 in 6.8M2 then closed it in 6.8M2. I then attempted to open in 6.7. 6.7 reembers the project did exist at one time, since it shows up under "recent projects" on the splashscreen, but when I click on it to open it I receive the horrifying pop-up

blahblahproject is not a valid netbeans project.

And if I attempt File-->Open recent Project I get "The project is either not valid or deleted".

Horrors.

[averri]

Netbeans 6.8 M2 is slower than M1. Some functions, like code completition for facelets did not work on M2.

[averri]

Another horror:

On a Maven based project, I've inserted the namespace for IceFaces framework in a XHTML file, I've declared the IceFaces component libraries as dependencies and the code completition did not work.

Consider the XHTML page bellow. The namespace xmlns:ice is not recognized by Netbeans.

I cannot use Netbeans for this simple web project.

[postmortem]

What is happening to NetBeans? 6.5 is last 'golden' version (5.0 , 5.5, 6.0, and 6.1 were too). After 6.5, everything went downhill.

It seemed back when 6.1 and 6.5 were released, that NetBeans was right-on to become #1 IDE.

In the mean time, Eclipse updates have been minor, it seems like Eclipse project development is slowing down. But at least their incremental updates don't break anything. I can safely open 3.2 projects in 3.5 and back.

IMO change in project settings between minor versions are showing bad design.

With these bugs, they are not going to attract new people. New features are great only if they work.

[Peter B. West]

I've been using NetBeans since the switch to ant builds. 4? I've been
through the compatibility problem with increases in the 2nd digit of
version numbers before. As long as you know that it's going to happen
(a big if) you can accommodate it. Incompatibilities, as I recall,
happened in the 5 and 6 series before. The lack of a backward option
is a pain though.

Peter


On 10/10/2009, at 9:51 AM, postmortem wrote:

[christopher.lemire]

Tell me wen u take off. Ill hav fone n laundry room.
------Original Message------
From: Peter B. West
To: address-removed
ReplyTo: address-removed
Subject: Re: [nbusers] 6.8M2 horrors
Sent: Oct 10, 2009 4:24 AM

I've been using NetBeans since the switch to ant builds. 4? I've been
through the compatibility problem with increases in the 2nd digit of
version numbers before. As long as you know that it's going to happen
(a big if) you can accommodate it. Incompatibilities, as I recall,
happened in the 5 and 6 series before. The lack of a backward option
is a pain though.

Peter


On 10/10/2009, at 9:51 AM, postmortem wrote:

[Manuel Mall]

Please be aware that a milestone build is just that - it has not even beta
release quality.

This means - bugs and problems are to be expected - and common sense
dictates - take a backup of anything that may be touched by it, e.g. your
existing projects you plan to open with the new release before doing so.
Personally I do that even when upgrading between release versions, actually
even before giving NetBeans permission to upgrade anything. And of course,
risk of data loss or corruption is further reduced if you use a source
control system for your projects.

However, having said that there doesn't seem to be a prominent warning (may
be there is one hidden somewhere) on the NetBeans site about the dangers of
using milestone versions and even the release note for M2 doesn't contain
any warning or precaution notice I could find in a quick scan. But instead
contains a note saying that:

"If you edit the Project Properties in NetBeans IDE 6.8 for a project that
was created in NetBeans IDE 4.1 or earlier, the project will no longer work
in the earlier NetBeans IDE versions."

So I guess, firstly you could reasonably expect your projects to survive
intact and secondly some blame is with NetBeans.org for not warning
explicitly about the inherent pitfalls when using any non production quality
release builds.

May I suggest you raise a bug report (IssueZilla) for the particular problem
you encountered using 6.8M2.

-----Original Message-----
From: postmortem [mailto:address-removed]
Sent: Saturday, 10 October 2009 7:51 AM
To: address-removed
Subject: [nbusers] 6.8M2 horrors

What is happening to NetBeans? 6.5 is last 'golden' version (5.0 , 5.5, 6.0,
and 6.1 were too). After 6.5, everything went downhill.



It seemed back when 6.1 and 6.5 were released, that NetBenas was right-on to
become #1 IDE.



In the mean time, Eclipse updates have been minor, it seems like Eclipse
project development is slowing down. But at least their incremental updates
don't break anything. I can safely open 3.2 projects in 3.5 and back.



IMO change in project settings between minor versions are showing bad
design.

[Fabrizio Giudici]

Manuel Mall wrote:

[mkleint]

horrors ought to be filed as bugs.

Milos

averri wrote:

[ddevore]

I disagree with you. I don't think that these horrors should be reported as bugs. These horrors should never have made it into any kind of release. It is like the NB team wants to run its users off. The IDE is becoming more and more unusable with every release.

6.7.1 throws null pointer errors all the time and 6.8 m2 won't even get to the point where I can open a file without running out of memory.

Is this all that can be expected from any release anymore? Is this what the software industry has degraded into?

[postmortem]

[emiddio]

i find nb68m2 much better than nb671 -- perhaps even good; verdict is still
out. IMHO nb671 should not have made it out
the door.

but in general -- bugs in nb releases since 6.0 -- are generally only fixed
in new releases -- so defects in any release seem to
never get fixed. the normal response is fixed in current build -- or feature
no longer supported.

this strategy -- if its a strategy -- only accomodates users working on
netbeans code -- or developers only working on brand new
code with brand new state of the art features;

my experience as a developer with 25+yrs -- is most companies do not use
bleeding edge technology -- at least not exclusively -- and
netbeans in general would be a problem -- unless the netbeans evangelists
start pushing for -- maintaining backward compatability and
fixing bug in previous releases -- not just in the next release.


in my view i care more about bug fixes than new features -- and i want them
propogated to previous releases.

IMHO
gary

[Alex Lam S.L.]

I guess I might be using different parts of the NetBeans IDE for my
daily work. I haven't tried the milestones either - I am a
nightly-build man. However, I do see considerable improvements with
opening and working with large Java projects when compare to even
6.7.1, and also I have stopped removing the /var/cache folder to fix
those weird and wonderful (and persisted across IDE restarts) moments
since this month.

So I would say I am quite a happy user, in the contrary. And given how
easy it is to report bugs these days (a pop-up dialog with a big
textbox and a Send button), I really think that NetBeans Team has done
a tremendous job since I first started using the IDE.

Last but not least, anyone can complain, but yelling without content
(read: ideas and suggestions) at a product / service which is provided
out of courtesy (read: free) does not sound very nice to me.

Alex.


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:53 PM, postmortem <address-removed> wrote:

[Pat Farrell]

Alex Lam S.L. wrote:

[Laszlo Nadai]

Could not agree more.
We ALL have some kind of "interest", including (but not limited to):
- "geeks" (including myself, well, I am one of the oldest ones) looking for appreciation, name, whatever the reason would have been...
- programmers, end-users looking for "free" things (any "programmer" who keeps looking for "free" stuff, shut up, and wait for the next version, and post your stupid questions, balh, blah,... 
- corporations looking for the previously listed ones
and the list goes on...
 
Still, the most common problem is what I call the "mismatch of expectations", which keeps happening all the time, even if participants are not being aware of that fact (until after it is too late).
 
So, the question is, how to bring about mutual "satisfaction", and I have no answer as of today.
 
Sorry, if this was an "off-toppic" issue, but I did feel to share it.
 
Thanks,
-laszlo


On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Pat Farrell <address-removed ([email]address-removed[/email])> wrote: